Your GPS is not the final word
Yesterday on Twitter I picked up on the fact that fellow FitFluential ambassador Kristy was getting some grief from folks about her time in a recent 5-miler. Kristy PR’d the course by 1:40, yet some people were telling her that it didn’t count because “the course was short.” This, of course, according to their Garmins.
I know I’m going to offend some folks here, but I’ve gotta say it–your Garmin’s measurement of a course doesn’t count. At all. The race directors take a lot of time certifying courses. They do it–as you likely know–on the tightest tangent all the way through the course. Unless you are running that exact tangent, your Garmin is going to deliver a different measurement of the course. Not only that, but your Garmin may not be right.
If I had a dime for every time I’ve run with friends wearing Garmins, only to hear them compare numbers at the end and find that no two were the same, well, I would be retired by now. There are so many reasons for these mileage differences. Some Garmins pick up more satellites than others. Some might not record 100 percent of the run (if you go through a very thickly tree-lined section or are on a hilly trail, for instance). One runner might have run closer to the road tangents than the other. I could go on.
In a race situation, know that the race director has done his or her very best to measure the course accurately. When your Garmin invariably gives you a different number, just let it go. Do NOT find the race director and complain that the course was long (or short). Do NOT go out on your blog, Twitter, or Facebook and diss the race because the distance was off. Just race your race, enjoy the day, and accept a little discrepancy in numbers.
Technology is a great thing, but let’s not use it for the wrong reasons. To me, using it to whine and complain about a few tenths of a mile difference from Garmin to certified course is the wrong reason.
What are your thoughts?
Amen!
LisaM@RunWiki recently posted..Double Chocolate Recovery Fudgsicle
I was running with a friend last week and we were both wearing our Garmins. Hers said we were running at a 9:20 pace, mine said we were running at an 8:12 pace. On another run, when I checked out my route online at Garmin connect, it had me running through a mall.
Yeah – a Garmin is a great guide, but it will never be perfect…and I still don’t understand why people assume it will be. The information is coming from a satellite – in SPACE (how cool is that?). To expect the measurement to be perfect is a little crazy. I’m just amazed that I can wear a watch with technology like that. I won’t complain that it is a few tenths of a mile off
Kristen recently posted..snowshoeing – vermont style
For my training runs I count my Garmin distance and time. In a race I do use my Garmin but the finishing time given by the race directors is the one I count.
Amen and amen. This drives me crazy too!
Callie @ The Wannabe Athlete recently posted..Dare To Be…
So true. Kills me when people don’t get the big picture! Great post.
Heidi @BananaBuzzbomb recently posted..What Exactly Does A Banana Buzzbomb Eat?
If I were a religious person, I would say Amen to this one (I just wrote that and realized the commenter above me actually did say Amen
)!
Garmins get screwed up by weather, by tree cover (Hello Wissahickon!), and by some many other things. But (to continue on the theme of religion!), to treat them as gospel? That’s just silly…
Abby @ Have Dental Floss, WIll Travel recently posted..‘Gator Gab
Totally agree with you, Miss Z!
Great post Amanda!!! If someone wants to consider their race short or long and go by their gps rather than what the race says…then whatever, that’s their deal…but to put down other runners and say it’s shady or using an analogy “it’s like cheating on a resume” is going a little too far. I don’t like when people insult other runners performances. I think we should be supporting and congratulating, not pickiing people’s races apart. can you tell I am still a little irritated? lol.
Great post! I feel like there’s been an uptick in negativity in the running community lately. Who am I to judge someone else’s PR? What does it matter to me if the course was short? The thing I love about running is that people are generally so supportive. It’s disappointing to me to hear about people being so negative to a fellow runner. Let’s keep it positive, folks!
Roxanne recently posted..Irish you a Happy St. Patrick’s Day
PS… the comment the blogger made wasn’t directed at me. I took it personally as I am claiming a PR on a course that her friends gps’s would consider short (she did not run the race).
Kristy @krisruntri recently posted..Running For Delaney
Wow, people actually went on line and dissed another runner’s PR because her Garmin measured it short? My life is way too busy for that kind of nonsense.
Sounds like these folks need to chill out and have a beer.
Congrats to Kristy for crushing her PR! Way to kick butt!
Tracy recently posted..Stomach Bug and Spring Cleaning
Tracy please see Kristi’s comment above. No one dissed anyone’s PR. This is ridiculous at this point and borderline slanderous. It really bothers me that this was taken so out of context and that a wonderfully written post by a wonderfully supportive runner in the community is being bashed like this.
Elizabeth recently posted..1600s!
Happy Pi Day !!!
I got a bit more about the whole situation from reading other blogs, etc. This one was not certified and was a charity race. Hard core runners pitched a fit, everyone else had a freaking awesome time running the course and partying afterwards haha.
I agree w/ you. Typically I use the times from the advertised distances unless they state it was long or short.
Garmins are GREAT tools… but they are just that. Tools, not exact precise measuring instruments. The farther you run the more potential for error too.
I think this A Type personalities are just being themselves though
Matt Oravec recently posted..Ready… Aim… Fire!!!
Glad I read the comments on this blog post. Interesting point here Matt.
MilesMusclesMom recently posted..25 Seconds
Your point on accuracy is not universally true – there have been some high profile road races that have been significantly inaccurate, i.e. Denver R&R last year. But that is not the issue. The issue is more the gross disregard for decency and camaraderie that should exist in the running community. If you have nothing better to do than troll the net and rain on someone’s great day, then find a cave and exit society for the good of the rest of us!
Steve recently posted..Thanks … and Moving Along
Amen! I get that sometimes it can be frustrating and at times and occasionally, the course may be wrong….. but unless the race tells you that it’s wrong, it doesn’t matter what your Garmin says! Garmin is for training, not for clocking your official race times
Heather@Just a Colorado Gal recently posted..Lucky Laces 10k!
AMEN!
I was once in a 20k race and a guy running next to me was like “the race should be over now, so this should be your 20k time.” Um, no.
kari w/ running ricig recently posted..more hill work necessary
I don’t have a garmin or even run with a watch. I am such a numbers girl at heart, and I know if I start tracking all that, it will take the joy out of running, for me.
Mara @Big Happy Family recently posted..Junior Champs
I believe my blog is the one you and Kristy are talking about. Here is the post: http://saltyrunning.wordpress.com/2012/03/13/how-far-was-that-marathon/ I do not believe my post says what some think it says.
Salty recently posted..How Far Was That Marathon?
Totally agree. Be happy for someone or just be quiet. A PR is a PR and is something to get excited about – not pick apart. I’m pretty sure she didn’t use it to qualify for the Olympics so just say “Great job!”
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Amanda did you read the post Kristi refers to? No one ever picked on kristy, on her race, or even on the race director etc. the blog was very well written and a personal opinion was stated about how if that person felt the course was short she wouldn’t use it as a pr. I don’t know kristi but to be quite honest this is feeling like a personal attack from her against those of us who are calling a spade a spade in our own race reports. Talk to the top 5 men and women at this race and ask them if they ran the distance. They will all tell you blatantly they could not have run that time on that course if it was legit.
None of us complained about this publicly. I blatantly state this is a charity run for fun. But I also state this is not my new 5 mile pr. Because it wasn’t a 5 mile course.
Yes garmins are inaccurate. They triangulate. A certified course will almost always be long on a garmin barring tree cover or lots of turns. My garmin gives me credit for more than a mile on a 1600 meter track all the time. Had my garmin said 4.95 or above I’d say pretty close. 4.84 is severely short we are talking 60-90 seconds dependent in pace.
And yes the rd would rather his course be short than long because the truth is 10% of the field wanted a legit course. The rest would complain if their garmin said long.
My personal preference: give me a challenge any day. If I pr on a “long course” I know for sure my fitness is improving.
Let me state that I am sponsored and this race comped my entry. I had tons of fun and I ran my ass off. They had to change the course 4 or 5 times race week so i understand why there were errors and that’s ok. I got to race a competitive field and get in a good workout! But when I want to set my 5 mile pr I will be running a certified course!
I love my plain, old Timex! Log Your Run is what I use for figuring out general training run distances and unless a race comes out and says it is long or short, what it is is what it is.
Carrie recently posted..My Unintentional Half Marathon
Thank you for posting this!!!
SO TRUE and it can drive me bananas some days
MilesMusclesMom recently posted..25 Seconds
EXACTLY right on!!!
Denise recently posted..Endless Pool Swim Lesson
Great post! You are so right. My Garmin usually says I ran farther than I did during races and I know that all the weaving and not running the tangents makes that happen.
Kristen recently posted..A race worth running
Couldn’t agree more. I used to never wear my Garmin to races, I actually found I do better without it as a distraction but I always just take it for an estimate anyway. Some of the differences I’ve had with other friends during a run can be really extreme!
abbi recently posted..Chambersburg Half Marathon – Race Recap
Usually I find my Garmin to be pretty accurate for a long, straight race course. I might be off here and there, but it’s pretty close. When it is really off, it’s usually because of turns. Take it on the track and see just how much corner cutting the Garmin does! It will beep for a mile with over 100 meters to go!
Gracie recently posted..Marathon recovery week
AMEN!!! Ugh, I can’t stand the convo after a long run… “My Garmin says 15.1″… “Mine says 15.3″. Garmins (like any other tech devices) are fine for giving a roundabout time/distance/pace, but some people depend on it like food. It can be so annoying. In fact, there are some folks I avoid running with simply because every couple minutes they’re giving a pace/distance report from their wrist. STFU!
Run with Jess recently posted..Run Fast. Run Happy!
I got a Garmin for *relatively* cheap because it was used, but once I discovered how spotty it could be under trees and next to tall buildings (uh… I’m either running in the city where I live or out on trails), I wound up ditching it.
Even if your friend’s course was “almost” 5 miles and people are complaining that the course was short, I can’t imagine it would have been short by more than a 10th of a mile which, at a decent pace, makes a difference of maybe 10-15 seconds on someone’s final time, not 1:40. For anyone to suggest that she would not have PR’d had the course been exactly 5 miles to the decimal is stupid. To take a whole minute and forty seconds away from her would mean that the course was at least a quarter mile short!
Jen,
The whole this is getting taken WAAAY out of context. The course was hard and Kristi had a great run against a tough field. She was 7th overall female and did great. No one is trying to take away from her accomplishment at all. The original post never talks about anyone in particular or even a specific race. It was a post to discuss the inherent problem with running local races that don’t certify their courses.
The course was blatantly short though. We are not talking 10-15 seconds, we are talking 60-90. You can go to any of the top runners race reports and they will tell you that, these are people who have been racing competitively for years, they are not trying to rain on anyone’s parade, they are stating a fact about their own performances.
The truth is based on Kristi’s time and previous PR had the course been legit she still would have PR’ed which says a lot for a tough course like this one. I can honestly say I would not have PR’ed had the course been legit that day, so Kudos to her! No one said she is incapable of the time she ran on a flatter course etc. No one even brought her up at all. She states above the same thing and that she took it personally even though it wasn’t.
I am a little disturbed at how out of context this whole thing was taken and at how it has become a personal attack against those of us who want to see accurately measured courses, that somehow my desire for a legit race takes away from someones else accomplishment is just bizarre.
E
this is a great and timely post. friends of mine just ran a race and many pr’d, then you started hearing folks talk about it was short. I was in a tri once (which i paid a good amount to race) and the run was supposed to be 3.1, it wound up being about 2 miles. i can understand a race being off slightly, but if a race is significantly off it makes me really mad. one doesn’t need their garmin to tell this, when your time for a 3.1 is clearly not even close to a full 3.1 miles. I find that if I am paying money, and I could walk the course with a garmin, why is it so hard for a race director to get it right ? the only part i do agree with is,, everyone else is running the same course so it is about where you were in the pack, if you did better than x amount of people that is REAL.
feener recently posted..speed work and weather memories
Unreasonable trust in technology is one thing. Taking away from somebody’s achievements is just mean spirited.
Ewa recently posted..To write or not to write… Eeyore’s dilemma
it always gets me when I hear the whining about how long a marathon was….not exactly 26.2 on the garmin….well, duh!! Sorry, typing on Treadmill.
Totally agree with the Garmin-measured distances being off for myriad reasons and that runners should congratulate others on their pride in running a good personal effort.
Can I take this on a tangent, though, taking Garmin completely OUT of the equation and ask for technical RD expertise?
What if you run a marathon and know during the race (based on a split time at mile 3) that one of the miles measured short, then read that the RD acknowledged the course being about 0.2 miles short? After the race, the statement appeared for about a week on the Web site; the results page never said anything about a short course, and the statement is no longer there. Should you add a couple of minutes to your (huge PR) time and say it’s an estimated finish time since the course was short? Should you assume that you didn’t run perfect tangents on a course that wound around dozens of s-turns and u-turns for several miles in a park and ultimately came really dang close to running 26.2? For those who had a BQ time (not me), does it count? Just honestly curious on etiquette and opinions, not looking to start a debate or anything.
I think cite the official time with an asterisk and maybe put something like “short course ~26.0 miles” in parentheses next to the time. Only certified marathon courses count for BQ times. Congrats on the big PR!
Salty recently posted..How Far Was That Marathon?
Makes good sense. Thanks!
I totally agree. Definitely don’t tell another person they didn’t PR because of what your Garmin says. How rude!
Hikermom recently posted..Things I Learned On My Run
I didn’t read the other comments but I can tell you this – those people stating that their garmins are accurate are idiots. <—-sorry normally I try to be nice but that is absolutely ridiculous! The race directors MEASURE the course – they don't map it using satellites. When I had to use the FINEST state of the art GPS units to monitor fish migrations and to find my way in the field they'd be off sometimes by over 5 miles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and those are what the pro biologists use!
silly. CONGRATS to Kristy on her PR
Ali Mc recently posted..Poor Me, Logan & A Surprise!
If the course is certified I agree, otherwise Garmin is infallible.
Kovas recently posted..Acoustic Guitar For Dummies Product Review
Now that I’m delving into the details of the actual race in question, it appears that the course wasn’t certified. In that case, it can’t promise to be much more accurate than the Garmin.
And it is true that even certified courses can be off. Last fall I ran the Jazz half marathon, and the 5k portion was measure correctly and certified, but marked erroneously. The hilarious part of this story is that the results were then reported for the “3.27 mi” race instead of the 5k!
Gracie recently posted..Marathon recovery week
I still (silently) whine a little bit when my Garmin is off a decent amount after a race, but something I heard at a small, charity half marathon along the beach in December really put it into perspective. He reminded us why we were there (to raise awareness for autism) and told us that if the course was “off” to take it up with the surfers and pointed at the beautiful ocean that was our backdrop for the entire event.
I might whine if my garmin is off, but I agree with everything you said. I would never complain to a race director about the course being short/long. I respect the amount of time they put into the race that I signed up for them and feel grateful for their hard work.
Tasha @ Healthy Diva recently posted..You thought about eating this on your long run?!
Great post! I couldn’t agree more!
In ultra running most races are “billed” as at least a , 50k, 50miler … The extra is just free running. Due to that fact I usually like to think of course PRs over distance PRs. But then again I am a sucker for running the same races year after year once I find a really great one.
As for complaining to an RD (to their face or via the internet), I don’t think I’d ever be rude enough to do that. No matter what I though might have been lacking for my personal experience at their race unless asked I would keep in mind that the RD gave of their time, energy and talents so that I could run.
shelly recently posted..Your Daily Pie
I think everyone would like an accurate course. I don’t have an issue with the bloggers post about wanting that. I have an issue with this paragraph which I (and many others I showed it to) found insulting and would then consider me “dishonest” and “shady” and “like cheating on my resume” for claiming that race as PR:
So maybe you aren’t trying to qualify for Boston or maybe you aren’t going to break any records or be nationally ranked any time soon. Maybe, like me, you like to patronize small local races that don’t have resources for course certification. Confidence that the race’s distance is the distance advertised is still important. Say we run one 5k race that is accurately measured at 21:00 and then run a 5k that is only 3.0 miles in 20:30. You might think you ran a substantial PR in the second race, but you actually ran a slower pace than the first one. Sure, it’s not the end of the world, but if you use the second race time as your PR I think you actually cheapen the value of that PR to someone who ran the same time on a legit course and you’re not being honest with yourself. Maybe I take it all too seriously, but I think citing a short course as a PR is a little like lying on your resume. Kinda shady.
Kristy @krisruntri recently posted..Running For Delaney
Some days it is very depressing to realize how filled the world is with “haters”. Why can’t we all just cheer each other on all the time? (Like that adorable 85 year old food “critic” in the news – how can people hate on her?) Great post – thanks for keeping it real.
Penny recently posted..Two for Tuesday…Do I need to change my name?
Talk it, Sister!!! Loved your response to this issue.
Julie recently posted..Biggest Loser and Sneak Peak
i’m sooooo with you there. it’s always going to be longer b/c you can’t run the exact route that the officials have marked. so dumb that people would even rain on her PR with that. bad form.
Great post girl! So freaking true!!!!!!!!!!!!! I go in to every race expecting to “run more” than the actual course because of this. Garmin’s are not the end all be all and there’s no way you ran perfect tangents mixed in with the pack!
Morgan recently posted..Run Happy!
So true. I get really frustrated by people using their Garmins as the measuring stick and then fighting it after the race. Seriously, how reliant are we when we think a small $200 dollar satellite tracking device is accurate?
I think race directors have a tough job.
Missy recently posted..Ice Cream for Breakfast? Yes, please!
Can I just say a huge freaking “thank you” for this post!!!
THANK YOU!!
Emz recently posted..Catalina Marathon 2012 "Enjoying the View" – Skillz
Amen. Preach it, sister!
Of a course is USATF certified then it IS the right distance!
Hello? Weaving in and out, not running the tangents as measured…these all add up. And like you said, buildings, trees, even cloud cover can impeded getting a satellite!
I HAVE run a course that was too short. It was a tiny “fun run” that wasn’t chip timed & they apologized. Someone moved the cones overnight. But it wasn’t USATF certified…and it was no big deal to me!
Thank you for posting about this!!!
And to Kristy, congrats on your new PR!!!
Amen Sista!!!!
I choose to run for the beauty, peace and happiness that it brings me and I hate it when someone tries to robs me of my endorphin rush by fretting over a tenth of a mile. I have the same frustration with people on the bus to the start line of a race who spend the entire drive complaining and being negative. So rude to those getting their mind right for the race.
there was that great newspaper article just a bit back about how it can so easily be off and yes i agree anytime a group of us run together we get slightly different measurements and occasionally oddly different, but i figure runners are crazy anyways
Amanda – RunToTheFinish recently posted..Thank You (Oakley and ellasport) Giveaway
i completey agree. your garmin is a guide – NOT the end all, be all!!!!! i would never, ever email a race director and tell them their course was short based on my garmin. how embarrassing!
Kristy recently posted..Crying Uncle and Boston Week 10 Recap
Amen!
Raquelita recently posted..Big News: I’m Moving West!
I agree: Garmins aren’t perfect. That is for sure. Among other things, it interpolates points between data points, and often those lines don’t reflect the actual route.
NY Wolve recently posted..Running with a Cold
I HATE when people complain about a race because their Garmin distance is off. A race is a race. Your marathon isn’t over at 26.2, it is over when you cross the finish line. Stop the complaining. I run my races when looking at one mile at a time, so that my pace is not distorted by the extra distance.
Robin recently posted..Proud Mommy
So true… nytimes did an article on the unreliability of gps devices, specifically athletic watches, it was really helpful. I did, however, run one 10k “fun run” that was somehow way off… my watch clocked it as 5.35 miles! But there was no chip time, awards, etc so I guess they didn’t think it was a big deal.
Laura recently posted..Grumpy wiaw
The Garmin is a good tool, but I learned a long time ago to keep it in its proper place, on training runs as well as in races.
Terzah recently posted..Physical Therapy–Second Visit
I ran a 5K last month and the course was short. My Garmin measured 2.95. Everyone at the end was comparing, and everyone’s showed between 2.95 and 2.97. So, no, I don’t feel like I can count that as a PR. In this case, I DO feel like it was the race director’s error. I ran the same race last year, and it was dead on. Last year, they had us start deeper in the park and finish in another place. This year, they had us start and finish in the same place–the place that we finished last year. I fully believe they had us start from the wrong place. And knowing that we should have been running for at least another tenth of a mile, no, I don’t think I or anyone else from that race should count that race time.
Pam recently posted..A Packed Calendar
Amen sister! I love when running in a group or even race and you hear everyones watches beeping at different times for the mile mark. WHen my boyfriend and I run together our watches are never the same. We always run til both watches say the distance we were aiming for.
Jessica B. recently posted..Shamrock 15K 2012
If there is one thing that you and I have in common is the lack of patience in dealing with the was that course long question……OMG people……stop it.
Send them here from now on:
http://cooktraineatrace.com/measuring-race-course/
Jason @ Cook Train Eat Race recently posted..Pacer Or Chaser?
True!! I always have to laugh when running with friends – we start our Garmins at the same time, run the same pace/distance but our mile marker “beeps” sound out at staggered times anywhere from .1-.3 mile differences! Trust the race course!
Kathy R recently posted..St. Patrick’s/Canyonlands Half Playlist
Totally agree. Although I love my Garmin I’d never trust it to tell the truth. Only recently it’s measured three different distances between two static road signs between which I run.
Runningfox recently posted..Troller’s Trot
This is so true!! The Garmin is not perfect!
Toni Church recently posted..Wordless Wednesday-In Memory of Pop
I’m amazes that some people are that ignorant. Haven’t they ever done an out and back course and found that, despite going exactly the same way back, it measures a few hundred metres shorter than on the way out. That defies physics so it must be the Garmin.
Char recently posted..It’s My Birthday!
Booya! Amen sista. I couldn’t agree more.
Erin recently posted..Wordless Wednesday
Wow, I had no idea this was such a hot button issue. Some of these comments are pretty heated! You would think with all the running endorphins people would be a little happier.
I was pretty sure that my $200 watch was not the most accurate (I like to think it clocks me slower than I am, but it seems to be the other way around). I don’t know what people think they are buying…military grade accuracy??
I just planned a couple of events and one thing I learned is that no matter what you do, somebody isn’t going to be happy
Katie@Will Race for Carbs recently posted..Things- The March Edition
Ditto on the “Amen” sentiment!
Lisa recently posted..Mind over (20 miles of) matter
This often irks me too when people feel like they have to mention that the garmin states that the race distance was short or long, but I read it all the time on blogs. I think that people feel like the garmin is the end-all-be-all and just don’t think about this in a logical way. I actually read an article months ago about this and how race directors are beginning to get annoyed with people contacting them about the distance discrepancies.
Congrats to Kristy for a well deserved PR, she deserved it no matter what others think.
Britt @ Chicago Runner Girl recently posted..Preparing to ride my edge
The half I ran recently had a lot of stuff on the website about how the race course was accurate and not to question it. It told how they measured it and that was that!
“Reasonable estimation” comes to mind when I think of my Garmin. I use it to get a “reasonable estimate” of my workout – time, pace, distance, HR – for tracking workouts. Since I’m self-coached, it’s all the data I’ve got to work with to make certain training decisions. But, most importantly it’s because I love numbers, data and gadgets!
Dianna on Maui recently posted..Things I’m Loving Right Now
I do think people have gotten way too attached to their Garmins. I think it’s not just an issue of race length, but the fact that many runners don’t really know what a certain pace or effort “feels like,” they are just concerned with the number that shows up on the Garmin. Don’t get me wrong, the Garmin is a great training tool. That being said, I think a lot of value comes from training yourself to know what a certain pace feels like–what happens when the Garmin craps out before or in the middle of a race?
Jessica M recently posted..My Favorite Running Bag (and what’s in it)
I think the point is more about how her friends (whomever) were saying her PR wasn’t as valid. Wow can’t we just say, “great job!!!” even if it is or isn’t off by a tenth of a mile!
Bullocks!
Fueled by Spite recently posted..Blog Trolling
Garmin data can be off by as much as 8% – it even says so on their website! My husband is in the GIS industry, which uses GPS and what Garmin uses. It’s a satellite in the sky – the data takes a bit to get from sky to your watch, and in doing so, it misses a bit of information in those few seconds it takes to get there. So stupid about your friend’s friends bashing her time over the Garmin data.
Jill recently posted..I’m Coming Home
Agreed! I’ve blogged on this before. A lot of planning goes into a race it’s not like they just guess on the mileage. I ran one 5K last year that was short and the race organizers publicized it as such calling it a 3-Miler. They couldn’t map it out to 3.1 due to construction.
Holly recently posted..Hacked
Thank you. While a GPS is a training tool (emphasis on training) it can intrude on the simplicity and tactics of running if you let it.
Adrienne recently posted..Trending Positive
SO freakin’ TRUE!!! So true, indeed….glad you spoke out!
Vieve recently posted..Week #10 In Review
well said. yes, technology is not fool-proof, that’s for sure. wow, i can’t believe people would get that hung up and not allow someone to be proud of their own accomplishments! i’m glad i run for fun and maybe i won’t buy a garmin! lol
Marissa recently posted..Finding Balance?
Well said! I’ll bet there are some race directors who are very grateful to hear your words right now. I’m sure they’ve heard “but my Garmin said…” many times! A Garmin is a great training and pacing tool, but that’s all it is.
Alison Gittelman recently posted..Meb Wears Skechers
I agree that the race distance is what counts, but have to say that a lot of races are off. Many races have course records from long ago before GPS technology, and wouldn’t dream of changing the course. Just running a slightly different line adds up over the course of a long race, so that is why the Garmin is different even if the course is accurate. Your point is well taken, though. A few tenths shouldn’t make that much of a difference and a PR is a PR, no matter what.
well I go with the best one between official time and my Garmin of course…
no no I am kidding
it drives me nuts when people say well the course was long and they re calculate their pace and time
I agree with you 110%
Caroline recently posted..10 {or 70} yrs old, Awards Season and Brooks Pure Flow.
With a post like this the whole world needs to get there 2 cents in… Now there is nothing worse when a race get the route wrong… a number of years ago we were running a 10km, and the marshal turned us down the wrong road and we ran 11.3km my wife had an asthma attack!!! I now run with a garmin and just look at the km markers on the road and let my wife know if any of them were out of place, now up to 100m on garmin is ok, it’s when it’s 150m+ out I get worried…
Coach Dion recently posted..WEEK 2
Not only is the Garmin not as accurate as we would like to think, but many runners “cheat” – especially in short races like 5K and 5 milers – because they run on sidewalks or outside the cones in order to get ahead of people. Doing so can either add or reduce distance.
Jamoosh recently posted..Bullets to the Head
i totally agree with you – unless the course is RIDICULOUSLY off and the race management has acknowledged and apologized for it (which has happened a couple of times in my experience), i usually don’t care much or let it get to me. i wear my garmin in races mostly to keep myself from running too fast too soon. i run by feel, but will glance at my pacing every now and then to make sure i’m on target.
great post!
jessica recently posted..on courage
Wowzers, this has stirred up some good conversation.
I definitely agree with you – the course counts, not the Garmin. Just think of all the races we run where our Garmin measures the course longer. We still only get to say we raced a 10K or a half marathon. So if the Garmin measures less, why should it be any different?
I actually read a blog once where the girl actually stopped her Garmin when it read 26.2 in a marathon and claimed that as her finishing time. Really had to bite my tongue on that one!
marlene recently posted..Three Things Thursday
this is one of my biggest peeves about runners! ha. (well, runners who claim garmin is god) tangents, satellites – these things make a difference. do people really think a satellite is pinpointed on *their* every move? mmmkay. to me it is common sense that garmins are not perfect…
lindsay recently posted..because i can
I agree – Often times my running buddy and I are not at the same mileage – it just happens! I haven’t ever run a course that was short – usually my garmin always reads that I ran farther. Thats just how it is. I still consider the course to be the distance that I am running and no more or no less. I like the garmin just because it tells you your pace, other than that, distance is kind of relative!
J recently posted..My Secret to Lunch Runs
I think this happens at just about every race, but it seems some races are more off than others due to GPS bouncing, buildings, trees, mountains, and so on.
Check out this article having to do with GPS discrepancies:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/20/health/nutrition/gps-watches-may-not-track-runs-accurately.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
and finally:
This was from a 15k in my area and people complained about the distance:
“Regarding course length, it’s a USATF certified course. That means it was measured using a Jones counter over the shortest possible route. USATF rules allow it to be up to 15015 meters long. If your GPS tells you you ran too far, here’s why: (1)you didn’t run the shortest possible rote, and (2)Your GPS isn’t that accurate.”
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Garmin aside (because a 1:40 leaves a LOT of room for shortness OR longness – go Kristi!) I think it’s kind of rude for people to try to challenge or discount someone’s PR just because THEY think the distance is off. It’s not like her garmin told her she was clocking a 2 min/mi (mine has done that) & she posted it all over the internet – she had an accomplishment that she’s proud of! I smell sour grapes.
Kristi, you go with your bad self!
I agree that it is never ok to shoot someone else down, citing the data collected on your Garmin. I’m not saying Salty Running did that, although I can see how her writing unfortunately could have been interpreted that way; such is the danger of sending your opinions out into the bloggosphere.
Making race directors aware of a possible discrepancy, however, is a different story. Sure, it’s best to just sit back and enjoy what the race was and not get bogged down by minutiae. In general I think that is a great way to approach life. But sometimes minutiae matter. Some folks follow an exacting training regimen and would want to know if their performance really did improve — or tank, for that matter — that much at an given race. Some folks need to qualify for another race and need to know that their result is legit. I see can how the discrepancy can be important to some, but not to others. My beef is not with the people who complain as much as how race directors handle complaints. I believe race directors should make an honest effort to address complaints, no matter how petty, especially when the race is not a charity fundraiser, and respond in a straightforward way. Let me give you a couple examples…
At one for-profit half marathon a few years ago, many people’s GPS devices (I don’t have one) measured 12.9 versus 13.1. Not a huge difference, right? Well, a few runners brought this up to the race directors, saying they noticed some course changes compared to previous years, and could the distance possibly be off. The RDs ignore them, kept saying “the course was certified.” One participant took it all the way up to the USTAF who sent someone out to remeasure and it turns out the course that year was 12.9, and the certification was from 3 years prior based on the traditional course, not on the course as modified that particular year. Why does this matter? For the runner who took it up to the top, she was bummed about whether her result that day was going to be recognized as legit for some other race she was trying to qualify for. For me, I guess I was a little disappointed I didn’t actually run as fast as I thought, but really it didn’t matter. For the RD, maybe it was a question of potentially having to offer refunds of race fees or free entries to next year’s race, because they staunchly refused to admit error or apologize. A short admission and apology would have calmed many of the disgruntled, I think, and we all could have moved on. But no. Didn’t happen. I consider that bad form.
By contrast, in a charity half marathon in the DC area last fall, Garmins measured 1 mile short. Runners brought this up with the race directors and they looked into it, realized they in fact mismeasured by 1 mile, apologized publicly on Facebook and offered every participant guaranteed entry into next year. Well done, I say. Good form.
Great post! After Shamrock this week, I’ve seen a couple of people say the course was long and I’ve had to quickly point them to articles about how certified courses are measured. I’m getting kind of tired of people thinking their GPS is so perfect.
David H. recently posted..Wordless Wednesday: My son’s first Shamrock